gooood Interview NO.17 – He Jingtang
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Dec 16, 2022 10:18 AM
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gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣创意人，欢迎您的推荐和建议。 第17期为您奉上的是中国工程院院士何镜堂。更多关于他： Architectural Design & Research Institute of SCUT on gooood 。 gooood team interviews creative from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed! gooood Interview NO.17 introduces He Jingtang. More: Architectural Design & Research Institute of SCUT on gooood .
出品人：向玲 Producer: Xiang Ling 编辑团队：向玲，陈诺嘉，鹿璐，杨子豪 Editor: Xiang Ling, Chen Nuojia, Lu Lu, Yang Zihao
▼视频 Video （全文深度采访见下方文字。视频为5分钟精华版，建议选择蓝光1080p观看。）
Interviewgooood x He Jingtang
1.
从事建筑行业很多年，您觉得最有代表性的作品是哪几件？Having been very professional in architecture for many years, which projects you think that could be seen as the typical ones.
这几十年间，我和我的团队一起创作了很多类型的建筑，总体来讲我有三个特别喜欢的作品：一是中国馆；二是侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程；三是我的工作室。这三个作品既体现了中国重大事件，又很好地体现了我的人生和工作中三种不同的状态。
My team and I have accomplished many types of architectures in decades and I would like to say, in general, my favourite projects would be Chinese Pavillion, The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III and my studio. The three projects represent the important events of China and different status of my life and work.
何镜堂院士最喜欢的三个项目 Three favorate projects of Academician He Jingtang
▼中国馆 Chinese Pavillion
▼侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程 The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III
▼何镜堂工作室 He Jingtang studio
首先是中国馆。中国馆是中国文化的表现，也是未来发展与体现科学技术进步的平台。中国馆建筑很大，有十六万平方米，架空高度33米，总高70多米，光是屋顶就有两个半足球场这么大。这个建筑本身是中国的，反映了中国文化的精神，同时它使用的中国红也体现了中国文化。有人说中国馆像斗拱，还有人说像粮仓，重庆人说像火锅，成都人说像打麻将的桌子。中国馆就这样变成了中国文化的符号。
Firstly, the Chinese Pavillion is the symbol of Chinese culture and is also the platform to show the scientific advances and the future development of China. The scale of the Chinese Pavillion is 160,000 sqm, with 33 meters built on stilts, more than 70 metres high in total, and the roof solely is as huge as two football playgrounds. The Chinese Pavillion represents the spirit of Chinese culture and the red color is also the element of Chinese culture. People say Chinese Pavillion looks like bracket set or a barn, or people from Chongqing would say it looks like a hot pot while people from Chengdu may say it looks like the board where we play mahjong. However, it becomes the symbol of Chinese culture that we all familiar with.
▼辉煌的中国馆体现未来发展和科学进步，the glorious Chinese Pavilion showing the scientific advances and the future development of China
▼建筑本身成为中国文化符号，Chinese Pavilion as a symbol of Chinese culture
第二个我比较喜欢的作品是侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程。老馆是齐康先生于一九八五年九月做的一个万人坑，非常成功。后来中央决定把老馆扩大到700米长，100米宽。我们设计时把纪念馆的主题设定为从战争到和平：这是希望人们可以在参观后感到震撼，永远记住这个历史事件，最终把人类带向共同的文明道路。纪念馆的设计采用了一系列空间的序列：从战争到屠杀，抗争到反思，再到和平。人在建筑中可以体验感受这一空间序列。侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程和中国馆也象征了国家从悲惨走向富强的过程，我特别喜欢。
The second project that I like the most is The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III, which the phase I designed by Qikang in September, 1985 was a masterpiece. The central government decided to extend the old part into 700 meters length and 100 meters width. We set the design theme of this extension project as “From war to peace”, that is to emphasize this incident, to hold people’s heart and finally to bring people back to the civilization. We use a sequence of related volumes in this project. From the war to massacre and introspection, and to the peace, people would experience a sequence of different spaces and feelings. Meanwhile, the The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III and the Chinese Pavillion together represent process of our country through the painfulness and step to the prosperousness.
▼令人震撼的侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程，view of The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III
▼从战争到和平的空间序列，space sequence from war to peace
第三个作品不是很大，就是我的工作室。场地内原有上世纪三十年代老中山大学（华南理工大学五山校区位于国立中山大学原校址）有六套给教授住的小别墅，100多平方米一栋，坡屋顶，砖墙承重。因为漏水，建筑中的木头都腐烂了，但是由于它们有历史价值，所以被保留了下来。南边还有四栋房子是文化大革命刚刚结束的时候盖的，标准很低，装修很简陋。我经历四个阶段，前后用了十一年的时间分四期把这些老房子逐渐改造成为了现在的工作室。项目最大的特点是保持了建筑的历史原貌，外形不变，外墙材料肌理和屋顶形式不变，但是里面的功能完全改了。我们在建筑之间新增加了一些构件元素，既增加了一些使用面积又激活了空间，把零碎的空间串成了一个整体。小小的工作室内有数个庭院，高低错落，有水池，有廊，还有很多绿化；另外还加了丰富的现代构成元素，是一个现代的岭南建筑园林。工作室尺度非常好，用地4000多平方米，建筑总面积也是4000多平方米，建筑群落高低错落，空间非常有层次感，也解决了所有的功能。功能包括工作、讨论方案、展览、交流、存放图书资料等，此外还有一个小饭堂。我和我的同事以及学生一起在这里工作，这个工作室既是一个创作平台，又是一个科研基地，我们在这里做了许多现代建筑创作研究课题；同时工作室还是一个产学研基地，培养了一大批博士和硕士。最近中国建筑学会在这里挂了一个牌，我们又变成了一个全国建筑科普基地，可以供大家参观和交流。这个工作室体现了我的人生里非常重要的工作特性，就是走产学研相结合的创作道路。去年威尼斯建筑大学的老校长Marino教授到工作室参观后很感动，后来邀请我们去威尼斯建筑大学展出我们的设计作品和理念。经过我的学生和团队大半年的努力，展览在意大利威尼斯成功举办，主题是“地域性，文化性，时代性，为激变的中国而设计”。
▼工作室保留原本建筑外观，the studio maintains the original appearance of the old buildings
The third project I would like to introduce here is our design studio. The site of our studio located 6 villas which were preserved for the professors of Sun Yat-sen University in the 1930s ( South China University of Technology Wushan compus located on the old site of National Sun Yat-sen University). These villas had slope roof and brick wall and with a scale of 100 sqm for each. Due to the water leakage, the wood that of the architecture are decomposed. Still, they are preserved because of the historical value. In the south part, there are other four buildings that were built at the end of the Great Cultural Revolution, which were in low qulity and were with simple decoration. I spent eleven years to transform these buildings gradually into the studio as you have seen now. These buildings maintain the historical style and the roof and surface, but are totally different inside. We intervened some strctural elements between the buildings and enlarged the functional spaces as well as activated the spaces. We reconnected the tiny spaces into a whole larger one space. In such a small studio includeed several courtyards in different sizes, and pools, galleries and greenery. Plus, we included many modern elements and it is a modern Lingnan Garden. The dimension of our studio which is about 4,000 sqm is comfortable and enjoyable. The architectures are in different heights and layers that meet to different needs. The functions that are including design works, project discussions, displays, communications and storage rooms, and we also have a small kitchen. I work with my coleagues and students together in this studio. For us, it is a platform of creations as well as a research place, where we have done many research projects. Besides, our studio is also a incubator of many phd and master students. Recently, the Architectural Society of China assigned us as the Popular Science Base of Architecture where people can visit and communicate with us. The studio speaks about a very important characteristic of my work, that is to develop a integration of production-study-research in my creation work. Last year Prof. Marino, the former principle of the University of Venice, came to visit our studio and was touched by our outcomes. He invited us to present our design works and concepts at their university. With half-a-year’s effort, we successfully made this exhibition of “Place, Time, Culture, Designing in Drastically Changing China”.
▼园林一般的工作室环境，garden like environment of the studio
2.
通常设计的切入点是什么？两观三性的理念是从最初介入到您的设计当中吗？能不能介绍一下您设计的一个过程。Usually, what is the entry point of your design works? Did you intervene your philosophy of“two perceptions and three descriptions” in your early works? Could you introduce to us a bit about your design process?
我建筑设计的起步比较晚，四十五岁之前我没有作品，没有发表文章，也没有得奖，但是我学到了很多的道理。建筑这门科学和其他的工程不同，和纯艺术不同，它是技术和艺术，物质和精神的结合，是艺术的科学，科学的艺术。建筑师既要懂得作为科学家、工程师所必须懂的逻辑分析能力，也要有艺术的，文化的一面。
建筑没有绝对正确的，没有100分的，没有唯一的。所有因素，从社会的经济，政治，到科学，文化，技术，都对建筑有影响。要懂的怎么去想，最好从三个方面理解建筑，即地域性，文化性和时代性。地域性包括地区，因为建筑是具体的，必须考虑所在地的气候，环境，还有当地的文化和风俗习惯。一个建筑精品，使用是首要的，但是若要做非常好的建筑，文化就起到了重要的作用。文化是建筑最高的层次，最高的享受，世界上流传下来的好建筑都是文化在起作用。此外建筑必须体现时代性，必须和现代人的需求联系在一起。比如说故宫是一个非常好的历史建筑，但是现在重盖一个故宫的话，人家就会骂你。所以我把建筑的影响因素概括为地域性、文化性、时代性这三个方面。一个建筑应该体现三者的融合，而我许多的工作都是在研究这三者如何融为一个整体。
My career of architecture started late. I don’t have projects and articles or even won no prices before my 45-years, but what I have gained was a lot of knowledge. Architecture is different from other engineering and art subjects, it is a combined subject of engineer and art, and a combination of object and spirit, it is an art science and a scientific art. As an architect, you have to be professional as scientist and engineer in logic analysis, however, you have to be aesthetic and culture-related in design works.
There is no perfect architecture in the world. Each aspect, from economic and politic elements to science, culture and technology, would have an effect on the architecture. It would be better if we see an architecture in three dimensions that is place, culture and time. Place including where the architecture locates, the climate, environment and culture and custom. The function of an architecture is the primier thing you have to consider, yet culture plays an important role in making it into a good one. Culture is the highest level of an architecture and the greatest architectures in the world are all related to culture. However, an architecture should speak about time that is to meet to the needs of the current times. For instance, the Palace Museum is a great historical architecture but it would be stupid if you build another same one at this time. So I summerized place, culture and time as three influencing factors which a great architecture should include all these three. And most of my work is relating to such researches.
▼何镜堂院士部分作品一览，遵循地域性、文化性、时代性，several projects of Academician He Jingtang, following the principle of place, culture and time
搞创作，首先就是定位。在接到一个项目时，我和我的团队不会马上忙于画图，而是会研究这个项目的定位，重点抓什么，从什么地方攻破它。比如说中国馆，我们参加招标的定位是八个字：“中国特色，时代精神。”能做到这个定位，就能够表现这个主题。侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程的投标也一样，我们通过分析决定这个馆的主题定位为“从战争到和平。”通过这个馆，既能看到战争的残酷，又会最终把人类引到和平。而对于汶川地震的震中纪念地，我给它定主题是从记忆到希望，让人们记住地震这个灾难性的事件，希望人和自然和谐共存。每个建筑我都有一个定位，大家认同了定位，我们才开始收集资料。比如刚才说的“中国特色，时代精神”。为了明确什么叫中国特色，我们分很多人分别收集资料，从中国各种各样的文献、建筑里面提炼中国元素，拿出来大家研究，到底哪一样最能够体现我们中国的文化。我们还去了解外国的国家馆是如何完成的，历届世博会的中国馆是怎么做的。有了这几个方面的积累之后，我们就去研究上海当地的环境，城市和它的关系，以及当地文化的特点，从三个方面来破解这个题目。我们用资料了解中国特色是什么样的，了解现存的地形地貌环境是怎么样的，还专门研究国外同类型的建筑，有什么值得借鉴、参考的地方，然后才开始创作，天马行空，让大家都放开思想。我们通过分析，通过不断的交流、取舍，从一开始一二十个方案，慢慢变成十个、八个，最后变成两个。而最终确定的方案不等于是唯一的，只是相对比较符合我们的理想。
重大工程都有投标，从九十年代开始，我们就参加各种投标。无论是大学还是博物馆，我们都通过这个方式去参与，至于能不能中标，谁也不能保证，但是这个过程非常重要，我们表现了自己的水平，中标就是第二个问题了。我常常说一句话：“大家不要怕输，建筑没有一百分的，没有绝对正确的。输了可以总结经验，输多了我们会赢的。”我们有好的理念，有好的创作思维方法，还有敢于创新和拼搏的精神，最终融为一个团队，这是创作中最为重要的。
The first step of a creation work is positioning. My team would not start doing sketches immediately when we received a project, but to think about the positioning, to know better where we should start with and what would be the key point of this project. For example, in the invitation of tender of the Chinese Pavillion was “Chinese Chracteristics and the Spirit of Time”, and only when we set this position we could express better of this theme. The same thing as The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III, which after analysis we set the theme of “from War to Peace”. By visiting this museum, one could feel the cruelness of war while in the end we bring people back to the happiness of civilization. As for the 2008 Sichuan Earthquak Memorial Space, I settled the theme as “ from Memory to Hope”, that is to remind people the disaster and hope people would in harmony with nature. I have a position for each arhitecture, and we start to collect information only when we all agree with the positioning. Such as the “Chinese Chracteristics and the Spirit of Time” I said before, to make this theme clear, we saparately collecting information from many documents and searching for Chinese elements. And then we would discussing which could represent the Chinese culture. Plus, we also research the pavillions of other countries, and the former Chinese pavillions. With the basic knowledge, we went for a tour in Shanghai to know better about the environment, the city,the relationship and the cultual specifics. We got to know the Chinese characteristics the environment and the topography, and we also did research on the similar architecture of other countries before the design process, and we welcome new ideas. By doing analysis and communications and compromises, we started with 10 to 20 projects, then to several projects and end with two projects. So the last one is not the only one but the ideal one.
All the big projects have tenders, and we started to tender since 1990s. Universities or museums, no matter what it is, we would paticipate in the tenders. Whether won or not, we would enjoy this process. I used to talk to my team:“ there is no perfect project, so we should not afraid of the faliure. We will gain more when we gain enough experience after the faliure.” The most important thing for us is the good idea and right philosophy of design and we should work harder and always ready for the chanlleges. We are such a team.
▼何镜堂团队在讨论方案，He Jingtang team discussing
3.
您如何看待传统文化元素和当代建筑材料，以及当代建筑结构之间的关系？又是怎么样平衡传统文化和现代建筑之间的关系的？What do you think is the relationship of traditional cultural elements, the modern materials, and the modern architectural structures? And how did you keep the balance between historical culture and modern architectures?
我始终有一个观点，就是建筑不可能孤立，世界文化的发展不能离开历史，越是有历史，有价值的学校，越能够有好的精神。文化的发展是传承和积淀的，这就是世界文化发展的潮流。我常常研究的一个问题是文化的传承与创新，对于文化要求比较高的建筑，要在了解当地文化的基础上，顺应任务书的要求，把它完成。我觉得文化的传承是一种精神的传承，中国建筑过去是木头做的构架结构，所以在做中国馆时我吸收了构架这个概念。尽管由于科学的进步，现在很多建筑已经不使用木头了，但是这种建筑形态的精神还在，我们吸收了这些精神的内涵用建筑的形式抽象表达，通过材料和技术把它表现了出来。
From my point of view, architectures cannot stand alone, and the world’s progress cannot stand alone without history. The much longer history and more valuable a university is, the better spiri it will have. The development of culture needs cultural inheritance and accumulation. This is the main topic of my research. By following the rules and knowing about the local traditions, you can accomplish this project better. For me, the cultural inheritance is a kind of spiritual inheritance. The traditional Chinese architecture are made of wood structure, and I learned a lot from this kind of tradition when I designed the Chinese Pavillion. We are not using wood structure a lot since the development of science, however we still keep the spirit and express it by using materials and technology in an abstract way.
▼中国（泰州）科学发展观展示中心，以石材替代传统建筑中的木材和砖瓦，保留建筑形态的精神，Exhibition Centre of Scientific Outlook in Taizhou, using stone material instead of wood and brick, remaining the spirit of Chinese traditional building
我有一个作品是泰州民俗文化村，现在叫中国（泰州）科学发展观展示中心。这个建筑处于老区和新城的交界的地方，一边和民居建筑群连在一起，另外一边则是新城，正好体现了传承与发展的概念。我们非常注意传统建筑的延伸，挨着传统建筑那边的高度，肌理、体量和形态都与传统相呼应，但是材料不同。我们吸收当地民居清水墙上图案的特点，改用石头做。由于新城尺度很大，在建筑和新城交界的地方，我就改成两层半；跟老交界的地方，我们减一层，并且利用之间的高低差做了个带状的水面，把江南水乡，一河两岸的特点融入了进去。这个建筑比较低调，有当地民居的特点、情调，但是用的材料是全新的，以前木头的、瓦的现在改用石头了，原来的青砖我也改用了石头和混凝土，但是其中吸收了很多原来表现形态的做法，一看就有当地的特色。这个做法贝聿铭先生做得非常成功，是我经常学习的对象。比如苏州博物馆，他非常注意建筑的高度、体量与传统民居的呼应，但是用的是新的材料，中为西用。我始终觉得一个重要建筑物，一看就是和传统融合在一起的，是呼应的，但绝对不是简单重复原来的做法，而是把它进行发展与延伸。
One of my project called Exhibition Centre of Scientific Outlook on Development in Taizhou locates at the border of the old and the new town, where the residential buildings are on one side and the new city is on the other side, thus, it shows the concept of inheritance and progress. In our design, the extension of traditional architectures plays a very important role. The height, fabric, volume and morpholgy that adjacent to the trational parts are all coordinated with traditions, but differs in materials. We learned from the local patterns that drew on the residential buildings and reuse them on the stones. As a result of the large scale of the new town, we change the height into two and a half level at the boundary of the new town. Plus, we reduce one level at the boundary of the old town and take advantage of the height differences, letting in the water which is the character of the locality. This architecture represents the local sentiment by using the new materials. We replaced the wood and black brick with stone and concrete, and learned a lot from the old patterns which were quite local. Leoh Ming Pei is very successful in designing in this way. Such as Suzhou Museum, which he emphasized the relationship of height,volume and traditional residential buildings but by using the new materials. I do believe an important architecture should combined with traditions but not in a way of repetition but to developing and extending.
▼中国（泰州）科学发展观展示中心，项目位于新老城区之间，在高度上与两侧分别呼应，Exhibition Centre of Scientific Outlook in Taizhou，located between the new city and old town, corresponding to each side on height
▼将江南水乡的特点引入建筑之中，put the character of Southeast water town in the design
4.
大厂民族宫十分精细唯美，给人留下了深刻的印象。请分享这个项目创作时从文化方面是怎么开始考虑的？施工和设计的过程当中有没有什么有趣的事情？Dachang Muslim Cultural Center leaves us a deep impression, and we would like to know what is the consideration in culture of this project? And is there anything you would like to share with us during the design and construction?
河北廊坊大厂县是一个回族自治区，以回民为主。怎么满足伊斯兰文化的要求，同时体现中国文化的特点，是我们考虑的重点。我们希望做一个非常宁静，简约的建筑，如同一座圣殿，把伊斯兰灿烂的文化，和人民对于美好生活的向往诗意地结合在一起。民族宫是当地生活聚集地，也是一个精神的家园。中国文化讲究天圆地方，所以建筑的布局外面是方的，里面是圆的。为了体现民族的融合，我们将建筑用五十六个拱围了起来，而拱又是伊斯兰建筑中很重要的元素。我们在思考形态的过程中十分注重这些大的因素，将建筑做得非常简洁、大气、整齐和统一，序列感较强。但若要真正把它做成一个作品，就要考虑细部，要花很多的功夫。
Dachang county is the autonomous region of Hui nationality. So how to meet the demands of muslim culture as well as the Chinese culture is our basic idea. We want to express a peace and simple architecture like a palace that combines the splendid Muslim culture with the dream of a better life. In this sense, the Dachang Muslim Cultural Center becomes a public space and a spiritual home. In Chinese culture we speak about “round heaven and square earth”, so the layout of architecture is square and is round inside. To show the combination of nations, we surrounded the architecture with 56 arch, which is an important element in muslim architecture. We attach importance to these factors and designed it in a modest, tidy, elegant and orderly. But to make it into a real project, we have to pay attention into much more details.
▼简洁大气的建筑，simple and elegant architecture
画完施工图后，我有一个学生驻到现场，专门研究拱怎么做，是用石头做呢，还是金属材料做？还是用GRC模仿石材的效果？为此我们做了很多一比一的样品，逐一比较。根据研究，伊斯兰文化里很多建筑都是纯白的，于是我们的五十六个拱选择用白色的大理石来做，表示它的宁静以及思想的简练。对于石头的纹理我们也做了很多的研究，有段时间我们专门驻在现场处理这个问题。我们的作品，光是画完图交给大家是不行的，一定要去到现场，不停地比较，才能做出精品。这个建筑的拱重复出一种韵律，前面有一个水池再加上池中间的倒影更能够凸显宁静、纯洁的氛围。考虑到水量问题，经过协调，我保留了入口的水，四十米宽，两边收窄一点，12米，最后效果非常好，非常漂亮。关于水池到底加不加栏杆，又要另外去讨论。我说这个水池不是真正的水池，很浅，只有20多公分的水，平常小孩都可以去玩，问题不大。最后我们决定不做栏杆，就有一个九米的跨，在跨的地方做一个灯座，形式完全按照拱的符号，晚上有一点灯光照在水边，效果非常好。
When finishing the production drawing, one of my students went to the site and thought about for which materials, stones or metal or GRC, we should use for construction. Thus, we made many models of equal sizes to compare with other materials. We had known that white is the main tone in many muslim architectures, so for the archs we use white marbles to express peace and the pure spirit. We also did researches at the texture of stones and spent a while at site to deal with it. Works cannot be only drawings, but also includes the efforts we spent on site to compare different materials solve many problems. The repeat of the arch shows a rythem which with the water at the front and the water reflections presents a peaceful atmosphere. Considering the volume of water, I reserved the water space at 40 metres width while narrowing the both side into 12 metres. And the outcome is satisfied. And we take another discussion on whether to use handdrails along the edges or not. In my point of view, the water pond is not the real one and is just about twenty centimetres and is accessible by children, so we desided to give up the handrails, instead, we made a bridge where we put lights and show them in a arch way. It looks amazing during the night.
▼水池倒映着连续的拱，宁静而美丽，continuous arches reflected in the pool, tranquil and beautiful
屋顶的穹顶是一个半露天的花园，不是一个封闭的空间。整个屋顶是半镂空的，用同一种花纹图案逐渐收起来，韵律性很强，非常震撼。在室内看它的时候，因为花纹是镂空的，白天可以看到白颜色的天空，形成了一种图案；晚上天空是黑的，有梁有拱的地方能看到灯光，又是另外一种图案，非常漂亮。下雪时，轻轻的雪花飘到里面去，人仿佛在室外活动，非常有诗意，简洁、宁静、纯净。还有一个问题的处理非常重要，建筑外形是方的，中间是圆的，方和圆中间有个空，就像光篷一样。过去我们在做机场的时候就经常遇到很大的光环，做的不好的是一个主构件，一个次构件，一看就是很乱。我们这次严格控制到没有主次构件，统一做成一个网，看起来非常纯净。有太阳的时候，透过玻璃的框架在墙面、地面上形成投影，非常漂亮。而且这个图案还能随着太阳位置的变化而变化，非常有诗意，这些都是细节的处理。这个作品没有什么特别大的创新，我们把伊斯兰中一些非常重点的东西表现出来，而且表现得很纯净、很统一，很有规律，便创造出了这座圣殿般的建筑。
The dome on the roof we made it into a semi-outdoor garden instead of a closed space. And the roof is a semi-hollow body space with the same patterns. The patterns are in a strong rythem which is amazing. Seeing from the inside, because of the pattern is a semi-hollow body, one can view the sky in which is shaped, while during the night, the light go through the architecture and forms a special shape that is fasinating. When snowing, the snow flake fluttering inside seemingly people are staying outside. The architecture is showing in a peaceful, simple, pure and poetic way. The architecture is in square which the middle space is round, besides, there is an empty space in the center that act as a pavillion of light. We used to use many light rings when designing airport, while the use of a main and a secondary component is a failure. We gave up these components this time by using a net which is pure. When in the sunlight, the frame reflects on the floor and changing with the movement of sun. These are all detail designs. There are not much creative works in the project, and what we have done is to use the real muslim elements and make them pure and orderly, that resulted in this holy palace.
▼阳光在室内留下美丽的光影，sunlight creates impressive shadow effects through skylight
▼白色的石拱和镂空拱顶细部，details of the white stone arch and semi-hollowed dome
5.
您被称为中国校园建筑大师，想问做校园规划建筑设计的时候，您的考量是什么？You are respected as the master of the campus building, so what aspect you considered the most when doing a campus building?
上个世纪末，这个世纪初，我们国家教育大发展，很多地方不断合并，合作，建校，建新校区，搞大学城，于是我开始研究大学。我对于任何建筑都不是一来就做，都要研究一下，走一条把设计跟研究结合的道路。
我主要研究现在的大学校园规划怎么适应现代人才的培养。现代人才是什么人才？我念书的年代，老师在上面讲课，我在下面听课，老师讲的东西我全部记下来了，年终考试100分，这就是好学生，这样教出来的学生毕业后非常听话，很纯，但是创新意识不强，实验性不强。现在社会需要创新型的复合型人才。怎么培养创新能力？听课只是一个方面，我们希望校园里面在听课时间之外，学生和老师之间，高年级学生和低年级学生之间，以及不同学科的学生之间，都能够有机会交流、交往、交叉，产生火花，产生创新思维。于是我非常注意校园的环境设计，提出了环境育人的概念。校园规划能提供这种环境，不仅仅是一个大广场，一条大轴线这样，而是提供许多大学和中学、小学交流的场所。我以这种概念做了很多的规划，符合现代社会的要求，于是越搞越多。地形是我在大学规划时首先的考虑，我会想这个大学是在怎样的环境中。在江南水乡我做的大学是一种状态；到重庆山区，如重庆科技大学，我就依山就势，顺其自然，大学的布局完全和地形地貌结合。
By the end of the last century and the beginning of this century, our country attach a great importance to education, and universities are cooperated in building new campuses and that is when I started to research campus. For each project I will start with a research. I prefer to find a way that combined the design and research.
My main focus is on how the campus plan adapts to the modern talents tranning. But what are the modern talents? In my generation, teachers were teaching on the stage while students were listening. The talent student would be the one who got full marks in exams which means he or she was a good listener but may be weak in creating and practicing. While the modern society needs people to be more interdisciplinary. That is to say, to enhance the ability in creating, we should not only let students focusing during the class but also communicating with other students and from other grades and subjects, and to learn from each other. Thus, I proposed “ people are educated by environment”. The campus design is not only an axon or plaza that composed the public spaces, but many different spaces that can organized communications between students and teachers. Following this concept, I designed many campus plannings which meet to the modern needs. Topography is the primary factor of my consideration. A campus would looks differently when locates in different conditions. Such as Chongqing University of Technology that relys on the topography the most.
▼重庆理工大学，依山傍水，因势随行，Chongqing University of Technology situated between mountain and water, following the topography of the environment
第二个考虑是这个地区的文化。江南水乡是一种文化，四川川北地方山丘又是一种文化，岭南广州是岭南文化，东北又是另外一种。把当地的地形地貌，环境还有文化融在一起，从地理上找来特性，可能就是设计的一个创新点了。我设计的大学从规划开始就控制好和环境的关系，控制好气候对它的影响，充分考虑这个地区的人文情怀，做好规划之后再做它的大体设计。在这样的概念下不可能保证每一次都能中标，但是不会差很远。
The second consideration is the culture of local space. Jiangnan watertown is a kind of culture where the massif in north Sichuan is another, so as for Lingnan and Northeast China. If we combined the culture and environment, and find out the characteristic in geography, this would become an innovation. I used to settle the relations of the campus and environment before the design work and take the climate influences into control as well as the cultural analysis. We were not sure whether we can win the competitive tender or not, but not far from it.
▼泰州中学新校区，融合气候、环境和人文（点击这里查看更多），New Campus of Taizhou High School, combining climate, environment and culture (click HERE to view more)
6.
您是岭南建筑学派的代表人物，在您眼里岭南建筑学派的地域性体现在哪里？您如何看待中国城市千城一面的现象？您又是如何看待地标性建筑的？As the representative figure of Lingnan school, what do you think is the space of it? And what do you say about the landmark architecture?
每个地区形成一种建筑风格，都是有依据来源的。因为建筑必须和一个地区发生关系，只有地区的建筑，没有抽象的建筑。岭南这个地方太阳高度角高，很热， 雨水特别多，很潮，几乎没有冬天，所以建筑都要考虑遮阳、隔热、通风、防潮。在这个地方生活的人习惯于室内外结合，因为气候允许室内外结合起来，所以很多建筑都比较通透，玻璃窗比较大。在规划里面，里巷晒不到太阳，但会通风。岭南地方的院子比较小，叫做天井，不希望晒太阳，而是希望凉快，通风，这是气候带来的。
第二个影响是人文。岭南这个地区首先有本土的南粤文化，中国传统文化的引进又影响了当地的文化，另外岭南从历史到现在都是和海外交流的，海上丝绸之路就是走的那里。很多华侨从外国回来，会把西方的一些材料、技术带回来，进而影响了建筑。这个地方是本土文化，中原文化和海外文化交流的地方。当地的文化很容易接受外国的理念，传统的房子都有一点西洋的做法、装饰和雕刻，像是意大利的马赛克等等。比如说碉楼，它的平面是中国传统的做法，但是在很多细部的处理上吸收了西洋的新材料。
Each formation of typical architectral style has a root. Since the architecture must have a relationship with a region, so there is only regional architecture but no abstract arhitecture. In the place of Lingnan, the solar elevation angle is high, and the weather is hot and wet and there is almost no winter days, thus the architectures here should take serious consideration of sun-shade, heat insulation, ventilation and damp-proof works. Local people used to link their indoor and outdoor lives because of the climate. The arhitectures here are more transparent with big windows. The alleys are void of sunlight but with ventilation. The courtyard in Lingnan space is called Tianjing, and it is in smaller scale without sunlight but only with ventilations.
The second influence of forming an architecture style is culture. Firstly, Lingnan spaces existing the culture of Guangdong and the traditional Chinese culture is also a factor. Besides, Lingnan has a long history in global exchange and many overseas Chinese come back with western materials and technologies thus influence the architectures. Lingnan is a place that organized central plain culture, local culture and overseas culture. The local architecture absorbed the western style which includes western constructions, decorations like italian mosaic. For instance the barbican is constructed in a traditional way but use some new materials in details.
▼澳门大学横琴校区，体现岭南地区的气候和文化特征，Hengqin Campus of Macau University, reflecting the environment and culture of Lingnan district
岭南建筑讲究一种非常务实和交融的创新，但是岭南建筑不等于岭南学派。后者是一种思想，可以说体现在我的两观三性的思想中。它作为一种创造思想，不只解决广东的问题，还解决气候问题，环境问题和文化问题。和哈佛大学教授Peter交流，他问我：“很多建筑师一看就知道是什么风格，但是你们搞的建筑没有固定的风格，差别很大，为什么？”我说很简单，建筑应该怎么表现要按项目的不同来决定，但是我的思想是统一的，都是两观三性，就是将地域，时代和文化融合在一起。
建筑对于不同的地域和不同的文化有着不同的处理。全球化的过程对于地域性是有一点冲击的，如何把这两个问题结合好是关键。我讲个例子，说搞一个电影院，任何电影院都有共性的一面和个性的一面，不管你去北京还是去广州，或者将来去美国，都要看得清楚，听得清楚。但是广州的气候跟北京的地形地貌完全是两回事，每个地方的文化也不同。搞电影院的时候，要把它所在地区的文化，地形地貌和气候结合在一起，不同地区的重点不同，搞出来的建筑必然不同。而这个不同，常常就是你的创新点，你从那里攻破它了，你的建筑就突显出来了。你觉得外国人搞得好，就抄过来，取它的一些构件，却没有理解为什么这么做，结果就变成千城一面了。反过来说上海的建设是这样一个情况，但是东北西北的气候不同，材料、文化趋向也不同，必然做出不同的东西。所以我们必须接地气，有文化自信，在学习当中不断提高。齐白石有一句话讲得非常好：“学我者生，像我者死。”很多大师的想法很好，我学他怎么思考，用这种思考结合当地的情况、当地的文化、当地的环境来应用，就可以在不同地区做出不同的建筑。
Lingnan style of architecture focus more on practical and blended innovation, while the Lingnan architecture is not the Lingnan school. The latter is an idealogy which I also embodied in my thought of “two perceptions and three descriptions”. It is a creative idealogy that not only solve the problems in Guangdong but also the environmental and cultural problems. I once communicated with Peter, and he asked me : “ many architects has their own styles but you don’t, each of your project looks different, why?” I said this is an easy question, because I always base my architecture on different places, but I have a thorough idea which connects all my projects, that is “two perceptions and three descriptions”.
For different region and different culture we have different treantments for architecture. The globalization has an effect on the place so the key issue is to combine these two aspects. For example, each cinema has the characteristics and the similarities wherever it is. But if you link the space with the local morphology, the climate and the culture, it would be different. And if you manage to do this, the outcome would be outstanding. If you copy from the others, or just learn to use some components without knowing better what it is, the result would be the same as copy and paste. On the contrary, the situation of Shanghai and Northeneast China are totally different so we must take them saparately and have enough confidence in local culture and learn from it. Qibaishi said: “ people who learn from mine will gain more than the one that looks like mine”. Many of the masters have good idealogies, if I learn from them in the ways of thinking and connect to the local culture and environment, the outcomes would be different.
▼将地域，时代和文化融合在一起 – 侵华日军第731部队罪证陈列馆（点击这里查看更多） Combine place, time and culture – The Exhibition Hall of Evidences of Crime committed by Unit 731 of the Japanese Imperial Army (click HERE to view more)
▼将地域，时代和文化融合在一起 – 映秀震中纪念地 Combine place, time and culture – The Epicenter Yingxiu Memorial
一个城市没有特别有标志性的建筑，这个城市怎么有特色？像巴黎，很多街区差不多，但是有一个埃菲尔铁塔，有一些宫殿如罗浮宫，还有拉德芳斯新区等等。伦敦也是这样，都是欧洲的建筑，但是其中有几个标志性的东西突了出来。应该讲北京本来也是，所有的城市都是这样。标志性的建筑能不能成为标志，第一个是要表现当地的文化特征，地形地貌特征，表示这个地区的文化审美；第二这个建筑必须是精品，粗制滥造是不行的；第三它要经得起历史的考验，不止是建筑师要做标志性的作品，大家要公认才行。这些是成为标志性建筑要符合的条件。然而标志性建筑不等于奇怪的建筑，建筑应该有特色，凡是标志都不是平庸的，但是不是靠奇怪来吸引眼球，它在这个城市里面应该是和谐的。
A city cannot be distinctive if there isnot any distinctive architectures. If Paris doesn’t have Louvre Museum, the Eiffel Tower or La Defense Area, cities in Europe would looks like the same. So as to the Chinese cities. Whether the characterictic architecture would become a landmark depends on firstly the culture and morphology and the aesthetic appreciation. Secondely, it should be a masterpiece. Thirdly, it should stands the test of time, and should satisfied by people. These are all factors that a landmark should have. However, a landmark shouldn’t be a strange architecture, it should have characteristics as well as in harmony with the city.
▼与城市相和谐 – 侵华日军南京大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆三期扩容工程（点击这里查看更多） In harmony with the city – The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III (click HERE to view more)
7.
您觉得现在我们的时代性是什么呢？您认为要怎样通过城市规划和建筑创作，来改善人类的生活环境和生活质量呢？What do you thnik is the time of this age? In which way, through urban planning and architecture design, you think we can improve our living conditions and qulity better?
我觉得当前时代性的东西，就是表现当今科学技术的进步，体现在建筑上就是运用新的材料和技术，表现新的街坊邻居之间的关系，以及给这个时代带来创新思想的变化。当前节能环保低碳是时代的大趋势，我们特别强调历史建筑和科学技术的要求。还有一个特点就是以人为本的思想，建筑要体现人文性，满足人工作、生活的要求，其中包括技术的要求，包括节能环保的要求。此外审美观点也会随着时代变化，我们这些年纪大的人不应该保守，应该跟上时代的思维方法，适应当下的潮流。总的来说当今时代要求我们的，从建筑来讲是节能、环保、低碳，自动化，智能化，体现科学技术的发展；另外就是以人为本，创造最适宜工作和学习的的环境。建筑要和地域环境相结合，更舒适，更方便，更智能化，更节能。不同时期对建筑的要求会有所变化，但是总的趋势是往前走的。
In my oppinion, the time of this age is the progress of science and technology which reflects on the modern architecture is the new types of materials, new relations of neighbourhoods and the new creative ideas that brought to this age. Currently, energy-saving, environmentally-friendly and low-carbon are the tendency of this age, so we emphasize more on the combination of architecture and technology. Another feature I would like to say is human oriented. Architecture should be humanistic and meets to the needs of work, and life that including the technological and environmental. Besides, the aesthetic standards would change by ages. We elderly people should follow the changing of times. In a word, this age calls for the engery-saving, environmentally-friendly, low-carbon, automatic and intelligent architecture. Inaddition, the human oriented is also important in designing livable spaces for living and work. It changes in different ages of architecture, but the long-term trend is in front of us.
▼何镜堂工作室开放，舒适，绿色的办公空间，open, green and comfortable working space of He Jingling Studio
8.
您今后做建筑设计的目标和计划是怎么样的？What would be your further plan or goals in architecture design?
今天我选择的一个题目是“为激变的中国而设计”。三十多年改革开放，中国发展得很快，我们搞建筑必须要找到正确的道路。我希望国家培养更多有文化自信，有国际视野的创新人才。我本身肩负教学、培养人才和创作几个方面的工作。我常常说我是三员：“教练员，裁判员和运动员。”教练员就是做老师、带研究生，每年都会培养博士、硕士；裁判员是指我有时候会去主持或者参与评标，比如特别重要的工程评选我会参加；但是我在更多的时间里是运动员，自己带领团队做设计。我的思想很开放，也不怕输。我总是用“输多了就会赢的”这句话鼓励大家不断去做。建筑师必须实践，要靠创作来说话。出人才和出成果是一套道路，我常常把出人才和出成果连在一起。我让很多博士生去参加重要的工程设计，毕业了建筑也盖起来了。中国馆，侵华日军大屠杀遇难同胞纪念馆扩建工程、南京明清城墙博物馆等等这些重要的项目都是我和我的博士一起搞起来的，这也是我的一个兴趣。建筑是一个辛苦但快乐的工作，当作品得到大家认同的时候是很快乐的。
The topic I choose for today is “Designing in Drastically Changing China”. In the past thirty years after the reform and opening-up policy, we have a very fast development which lead us architects to find a right way to do architecture design. I hope our country could foster more cultural confidence and more international creative talents. Me myself undertake the teaching, creating and trainning talents, I always say I am a trainer, a referee and an athlete. The trainer is to be a professor of master and phd students; the referee is to hold competitive tender; but most of the time I am an athlete to do design projects. I am a open-minded person and am not afraid of failure. I always encourage my team with “ you will win only when you lose more” to do our projects. Architects needs practice and prove themselves by projects. The way of traninging talents is as the same as working out projects which I always combined with each other. I always send my phd students to do projects, in which they graduated while the project finished. The Chinese Pavillion, and The Memorial Hall of the Victims in Nanjing Massacre by Japanese Invaders, Phase III etc. are all designed by me and my phd students. Architecture design is a hard process, but when your work is recognised by people, you will gain also happiness.
▼何镜堂院士在项目现场，Academician He Jingtang in the project site
▼大家一起为何镜堂院士庆祝生日，team celebrating Academician He Jingtang’s Birthday
▼精神矍铄的何镜堂院士，Academician He Jingtang, an energetic architect
More: Architectural Design & Research Institute of SCUT on gooood