MGG视频｜ 杉本博司与加布里埃尔 · 奥罗斯科有关艺术创作、建筑及日本美学的对谈
Created
Jun 16, 2023 10:20 AM
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人物
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国家
事务所
玛丽安 · 古德曼画廊推出
对谈
杉本博司
&
加布里埃尔 · 奥罗斯科
主持人
森美术馆馆长
片冈真实
两位艺术家和东京森美术馆的新任馆长片冈真实分享了他们对创作过程、建筑和日式美学的见解。这次对谈以杉本博司在玛丽安 · 古德曼巴黎画廊的个展“色彩理论”为契机，凸显了两位艺术家的创作。对谈于今春在杉本博司创立的小田原艺术基金会江之浦观测所录制。
我们为大家选取了对谈的一些精彩片段并翻译如下：
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片冈真实：你是如何度过整个2020年和疫情时期的？你当时人在日本吗？
加布里埃尔 · 奥罗斯科：我大部分时间都在日本，期间往返过几次墨西哥城。我在纽约有一个展览，其中大部分作品都是禁足期间我在住处完成的……不过确实，封城阶段的大部分时间里我都是在东京，还有一小部分时间在墨西哥。到最后，我觉得对我来说变化最大的是时间感，改变，时间点。
杉本博司：封城之前，我可能大部分时间都是在飞机上度过的……以前每个星期我都要去某个地方，然后这个节奏突然就中断了。我以前会记得某一天是几月的星期几。现在我哪儿也去不了，也就不需要再费心记得哪天是哪天了。现在不用到处跑，我感觉很幸运，因为不用调时差了，感觉自己回到人应有的状态了。
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片冈真实：你是什么时候开始规划这片土地的？
杉本博司：很早以前就开始了。我在20年前就开始考虑收购这块土地，开始和当地的土地所有者沟通。10年前，我开始制定计划。后来我陆续收集到了很多很多有趣的物件。然后经过了一个高强度的建设施工阶段，需要巧妙的设计和构思，以更快的速度和更低的成本来实现。三年前这里正式揭幕对公众开放。但我现在仍然几乎每周都会到这里来工作：还有新的部分需要实现。这个建设更新会一直延续到我生命的尽头，将是我人生中的最后一件艺术作品。
片冈真实：（你为）南伦敦画廊设计的（无水花园）用了很多圆圈的形状，有点像水里的一圈圈涟漪。
奥罗斯科：这个花园，在某种程度上，是不同流派园林艺术的结合。在我自己的作品里也常常出现圆圈，但这主要源自童年记忆，也有一部分是印度艺术的影响，特别是一些属于佛教的想象方式。这是一个包含不同元素的奇特组合，所以我选择用圆圈的形状。
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杉本博司：你在（墨西哥的）海边建造了一幢名叫“观测台”的房子，对吧？这里（江之浦观测所）也叫做“观测所”。我们（的建筑）有些共同之处。
奥罗斯科：的确如此。那个建筑是在一个小山丘上，就像这里一样。我把它建在那里，是为了有一个360度的全景视角。这件作品来源于印度的简塔 · 曼塔天文台。我测量了印度那座天文台的各种尺寸，然后按同样比例在墨西哥建造了这座房子。我一共花了十年时间规划，两年半修建，然后“观测台”在2006年对公众开放。……我个人始终尝试在实现雕塑或景观体验时，将其构想成一个行动平台，生命正在其中进行着，而我只是作为艺术家提供了这个平台。作为一个艺术家，有时候你唯一做的一件事，就是以物体的形式提供一个交流的平台，但大多数时候当它涉及到时间和空间，就不再仅仅是物体本身，而是围绕着物体的某些东西。墨西哥的这所房子，还有附近的海滩，也是一个平台。
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片冈真实：日本美学如何融入你的艺术实践的？
奥罗斯科：有意思的是，日本（的艺术）和杉本博司的作品是每一个人（都能有共鸣）的地域。杉本的海景是一种能唤起你的联想的风景，无论你是日本人还是墨西哥人。这其中有些对事物的感觉，虽然源自日本，但是早已经成为了我们文化的一部分。在来日本之前，我就对日本的文化、美学和绘画相当感兴趣。同时确实是，你提到的古斯塔夫 · 克林姆特是我自孩童时代起最喜欢的艺术家之一。我喜欢将西方文化和印度文化、日本文化，以及所有我感兴趣的事物结合在一起。我不认为自己是一个符合某些刻板印象的墨西哥艺术家，但我只是去尝试......我现在在日本生活，把自己视为是一个日本艺术家，很明显，我是个非常“日本”的艺术家。
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你是怎么看我的日本风格的作品？和我看你的日式作品或墨西哥风景是一样的吗？
杉本博司：你的卷轴作品让我印象深刻。日本人永远想不到这么去做。你把绘画的部分用来作为装裱的素材。日本和服宽腰带上的图案，你把它们颠倒过来，这让我很惊喜。哇，原来这也能是一种方式，我下次可能会尝试一下你的风格。
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杉本博司在玛丽安 · 古德曼巴黎画廊的个展“色彩理论”目前接受预约观展，并将从5月19日起重新对公众开放。展览将持续到5月29日。点击阅读原文可跳转画廊官网上本次展览的页面。
相关阅读 MGG现场｜杉本博司借用牛顿光学理论探索色彩之空幻 现场｜杉本博司策划，小田原艺术基金会江之浦观测所开幕
Marian Goodman Gallery
Presents
HIROSHI SUGIMOTO
in conversation with
GABRIEL OROZCO
Moderated by
MAMI KATAOKA
Director, Mori Museum
The artists share their thoughts on process, architecture and the Japanese aesthetic with the director of the Mori Art Museum. This conversation, celebrating the work of both artists, takes place on the occasion of Theory of Colours, our solo exhibition by Sugimoto at Galerie Marian Goodman. The conversation was recorded this Spring at the Enoura Observatory, Japan, which is part of the Odawara Art Foundation.
Here's an excerpt from the conversation.
...
Kataoka: How you had been spending in 2020 and COVID, you were in Japan ?
Orozco: Most of the time with a few trips to Mexico City. And I have a show in New York, but I produce most of the show in lockdown in my apartment...But yes, most of the lockdown has been in Tokyo and with a little bit of Mexico...At the end I think that what changes the most for me was a sense of time, change, timing.
Sugimoto: You know, before the lockdown, I spend, probably, I spend most of my time in airplanes... So every week I have to move somewhere, all of the sudden it stopped. So I used to remember which days of the week and even the month. But now I don't go anywhere, so I don't need to memorize myself. Which day is which day. I am so lucky not to move around, free from the jetlag and I feel like I'm human.
Kataoka: When did you start to plan this land?
Sugimoto: Well, quite, quite some time ago I started thinking about acquiring this land 20 years ago and start dealing with the local owners of the land. And then 10 years ago, I started making up plans. And then only three years ago, after collecting many, many interesting objects and then three years, construction is very, very condensed. Conception, construction wise, do it faster and cheaper... So that now, it's open three years ago. But now I keep working almost every week here: some kind of construction, new construction site. But So this continues till my end of my life. So this is the last piece of my art.
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Kataoka: (The Dry Garden) in the South London Gallery…(has) a lot of circles, and kind of like ripples of the water.
Orozco: This garden is a combination of different schools, in a way, of gardening. And also in my work, I use circles, but they come a lot from childhood memories, the use of circular forms, but also from the influence of some Indian art, especially some form of Buddhist imaginary tool, is a very strange combination of different factors, why I decided to use circular forms...
Sugimoto: (You built) a house called the Observatory, right, by the sea? Here's also called Observatory. We have something in common.
Orozco: Yes, That's true. Like this one - it's in a hill and you see - I built it there because you have a 360 view and and it's based on an observatory in India. The Jantar Mantar. I took measurements of this observatory, and then I rebuilt it...That house in Mexico, I planned it for ten years. I built it in two and a half years and it was opened in 2006...I personally, I tried always to conceive the sculptural or the landscape experience as you are in a platform of action in which life is happening and you just provide this platform as an artist. The only thing you do sometimes as an artist is to provide a platform of exchange in the form of an object, but mostly when it's about time and space, it's not just an object, it’s what is around the object. So this house and the beach, also is a platform.
Kataoka: How has some of the Japanese aesthetic come into your artistic practice？
Orozco: It’s interesting because Japan and Hiroshi’s work, it’s much as territory of everybody. I mean, the seascapes of Hiroshi's is something, that's a landscape that you can relate, no matter if you are Japanese or Mexican. There is some sense of things that we could say, they’re in Japanese originally, they’re from Japan, but they have been part of our culture since very long time...Before coming to Tokyo, I have been quite interested in Japanese culture and Japanese aesthetics, Japanese painting. At the same time it's true. You mentioned Klimt - Gustav Klimt has always, since I was a kid, been one of my favorite artists. I like to combine Western culture with Indian culture, with Japanese, with all the things I'm interested in. I don't consider myself a very stereotypical Mexican artist, but I try just to… living in Japan, I consider myself a Japanese artist, of course, and it's obvious I’m very Japanese artist, I'm sure.
What do you think when you see my Japanese work ? The same when I see your Japanese work or your Mexican landscapes?
Sugimoto: Well, I was kind of impressed from your scroll design. And the Japanese never can think about it because your painting part is usually used to be used for the framing material. This obi pattern. So you turn it upside down, and it’s…it shocked me. Wow, this is a possible way, so I may try your style.
Theory of Colours, the solo exhibition by Sugimoto at Galerie Marian Goodman will open to public on 19 May and it will be on view until 29 May. Plus click on the link at the bottom left to access the page of the show on our website.
正 在 展 出 I CURRENT EXHIBITIONS
N E W Y O R K
NAN GOLDIN
MEMORY LOST
27 APRIL - 12 JUNE 2021
24 West 57th Street
New York, NY 10019
T 212-977-7160
newyork@mariangoodman.com
Monday - Saturday, 10 am – 6 pm
L I B R A I R I E
MULTIPLES,INC.
ARTISTS&PHOTOGRAPHS
20 MARCH - 22 MAY 2021
66 rue du Temple
75003 Paris
T 33-1-42-7757-44
rlv@mariangoodman.com
Tuesday - Saturday, 11 am - 6 pm
即 将 对 公 众 开 放 I FORTHCOMING EXHIBITIONS
P A R I S
HIROSHI SUGIMOTO
THEORY OF COLOURS
19 - 29 MAY 2021
79 rue du Temple
75003 Paris
T 33-1-48-04-7052
paris@mariangoodman.com
Tuesday - Saturday, 11 am - 6 pm
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